I'm going to have to withdraw the link I just posted......it appears to be bogus. Reply...

Okay DFW. Let us address this issue.  Please give me a source that breaks down your illlegal immigrant cost.

Here is one I found......and you may keep or not keep this one if you like (hence why I am asking for yours)

http://kevincolby.com/2008/07/27/the-cost-of-illegal-immigrants-to-the-american-taxpayer/

Mind you not all of the costs are applicable to your purposes.

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Just booting out the illegal aliens would save us 200- 300 billion a year and free up 10 million jobs.  

Eliminate the EPA, Dept. of Education, FEMA and the Dept of Transportation.

THE GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE TO BORROW 50 CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR IT SPENDS NEXT YEAR.

How do you feel about Ron Paul and some of the ideas he was tossing around?

 

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DFW. You didn't save the country $426 Billion. You just pushed the burden of spending on to the states. Those are still public services (again: schools, police, troopers, parks,roads, bridges etc.) that still need to be paid for.  So, like Obama, you really aren't cutting taxes.....you're just moving them around.

All you did was to get it off of the Federal Government's books.

And now you are going to offer a small tax cut. 

(I'm letting you get away with) running ten to fifteen different US federal departments for $50 Billion.  THE REST IS MILITARY SPENDING. 

So if you want to have a balanced budget, you cannot cut anymore into the skeletal amount shared by those 10-15 departments. If you want to offer a tax cut, you will need to cut into defense spending and the war on terror budgets (in this time of war(s)).

Again.....this is just 1st or 2nd grade math.   

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If you don't cut military spending AND you want a balanced budget, you have no option in cutting taxes.  Again....that is what the math says.

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Mind you.........the original point of this discussion is to find a way for the USA to climb out of the worst economic crises in 70 years.  And to find justification for why YOUR plan is going to do a better job of saving jobs than the president's plan.

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Just for fun......let us assume you did eliminate $500 Billion in spending.  Congratulations.....you just contracted our failing economy by an additional 3.5% of GDP!!!!

How many people did you lay off?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The tax cut cut would be minimal to start,  the psychology of the words "tax cut "  would spur the economy more than the words "tax hike"  or "cap and trade"  which for people with half a brain is the the same thing.

I will bring up california again,  your high tax rates and green policies is driving business out of state,  the state is eliminating the businesses that pay your bills.   If yo have all of the answers you should spend your time talking to your state government.

It is hard to pinpoint the dollar amount amount illegals are costing the american taxpayer, but numbers between 200 - 300 billion nationally have been thrown around.

Rye - funny how I am the guy with my plan could save the country on the low side 500 billion and balance the budget and the winner of the argument has done nothing.  

You guys are like a two headed dog chasing his tail. 

   

 

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DFW.  I haven't put any value statments (i.e. peanuts) on anything. All I know is that it took 10X that ($50B) to run those departments last year.

Now you can try to weasle if you like and you can try to bring up California a fourth time.......or you can see where your answers take you.

As JPJ once said: I have yet begun to fight.

And I mean that.  We are in the preliminary stage of your self-hanging.

So why don't you go ahead and tell me the size of the tax cut...

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You treat the billion dollar number like it is peanuts,  typical california liberal.

If you give people more of their money to spend they will spend it,  your answer seems to be we need to let government spend it. 

At this point there may be no way to fix government,  it has gotten so large and out of control there may be no going back.

If you and rye are so smart give us your ideas for an unemployment fix?

Cause and effect..........  there are many effects that are not understood or realized at the time of a cause

 

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DFW
You've gotten your tush handed to you..and you're still squirming...
You're doing your best imitation of a turkey...a quivering bundle of nerves.
Wuwei is on a roll.. Reply...

Again pimple face, all you do is whine....you cannot offer an argument, all you do is spew insults..Apparently that makes you feel better..In your deluded mind, it overcomes your lack of substance, and rejection of reality...
Go play somewhere else, little man, you're out of your league.. Reply...

The questions I ask are to allow you to see the implications of your decisions. The benefit of this method is that YOU provide the answers.

Someone accused me of Liberal Logic earlier.  But all we are doing at this point is mathematics. 

The beauty here is that math does not recognize political affiliation. It won't allow you to make a claim of $1 Trillion if the other figures don't add up.

I am uncritically conceding to you a balanced budget.

Start:           1.21 Trillion

Eliminate      .42 Trillion (grants)

Remainder   .79 Trillion

Military Expenditures (time of war):  .74 Trillion

That leaves 50 Billion to run the following departments:

HUD, Education, Health Human Services, Energy, Agriculture, NASA, Treasury, Transportation, Interior, Labor, SSA, EPA, National Science, The excutive, legislative and judical branches of governement, Army Corp of Engineers, and Small Business Administration.

AND I'M GIVING IT TO YOU WITHOUT ARGUMENT!!!!!

 

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DFW.  I'm trying to get you to see why your plan is a disaster.

Again, even if we add in those other things you mentioned, it doesn't nearly add up to the sum you suggest ($1 Trillion).

Just the budgets of Dept of Defense, the War on Terror, Veterans Affairs, Dept of Homeland Security add up to $745 Billion.

THIS IS NOT COUNTING ANY OTHER DEPARTMENT.  And at this point, you are at a balanced budget.

Now....YOU want to cut taxes. 

How much?

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You forgot to add in the earmarks and illegal aliens.

You really should listen to a guy from one of the only states with a budget surplus.  

The answer to unemployment certainly does not involve cap and trade and a health care bill that requires a down payment of 600 billion.

You seem to already know the answers to your own questions.

He who would govern men must honor the five graces, spurn the four vices.... A gentleman is kind, but not wasteful; he burdens, but does not embitter; he is covetous, not sordid; high-minded, not proud; he inspires awe, and not fear.... To leave untaught and then to kill is cruelty: to ask full tale [tax] without warning is tyranny: to give careless orders, and be strict when the day comes is robbery: to be stingy in rewarding men is littleness. - Confucius, Analects, c.400 b.c.

 

 

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One more thing. The title of your article posted was "Discretionary Spending". Which we know to be $1.21 Trillion.   We know that you didn't trim $1 Trillion. 

That is unless you are thinking of running all of the departments I listed above for $210 Billion. (The defense department and the War on Terror cost $660 Billion just themselves).

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Also the $426 Billion isn't exactly eliminated.  Things like highway maintenance, public schools, state troopers, bridges, police departments, libraries and parks still need funding.  

All you did was push it onto the states to take care of.  And they still need to be paid for......so now your state taxes are higher.

But let us assume some efficiencies!  Great.

But it is off of the Federal books.....okay.

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Where is the other $575 Billion? Reply...

$426 Billion.  Without debating whether this is a good idea or not, let us lop off $426 Billlion.  That gets you to a balanced budget.

Now.....you want to cut into revenue by giving a tax cut.  How much?

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Mind you, we still need to apply your actions to the macroeconomy.....but right now we are just trying to figure out by how much.

So far you have cut spending by over $400 billion (which whether you like it or not does still have a multiplying effect within the greater economy). For example (simplistic):  Person A gets $100, he then takes that $100 and buys food; that money is then used by the grocery store owner to by clothes; and so so an so forth. (see velocity of money and the multiplier effect).

So for now, we have removed $426 Billion from the economy (which is not multiplying and increasing GDP).

But we are ahead of ourselves. Back to the question:

How much of a tax cut?

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Probably around a trillion

 

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